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Viper last won the day on December 31 2016

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About Viper

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  1. Furthermore: You underestimate the accuracy of the human eye and regularity of the set-up. It is your failure to understand what has small effect and what has bigger effect that defines your lack of factual understanding of the "shaft grip/human" interface. How do you effectively and legally clean your hands and shafts during a round without gloves, especially in summer? In order to attempt to hold a gloveless shaft firmly and correctly for the whole swing, the force your hands have to the exert is far more than is needed for a gloved stress-free, free release, smooth swing. Tightening your fingers and hand muscles without gloves cause other muscles in the wrists and lower arms to tighten up, hence increasing overall muscle stress in the whole arm, and negatively affecting the whole swing. All the evidence and facts are against you; if gloves are a con I'd be the first to expose it ! I tried playing without gloves, and I'm much worse. I can lead a horse to water, but I can't make it drink. I'm not offended by the word "chopper", I am offended by your sweeping generalization that every golfer other than a Pro swinging at 125mph is an "average chopper". What about a non-Pro with a swing speed of 125, 110, 100 mph?
  2. I'm rarely touchy, and I do have a great sense of humour. However, It's you that are touchy as it's clear from your response that you jump at anything that does not match your belief system, even when you are wrong, which you are on this subject. Let's analyse: Define "bang average"? Where do you get 80% from? A glove make a big difference to me, and note that I do not make any claim a glove's effect for you. All of the variables you quote do have an effect, but only a small effect; but no way near as much as a shaft slipping/moving in an ungloved hand, which additionally changes the head angle. In fact, the movement is only ever to open he face as centrifugal force, drag and impact reaction all act in that sense.
  3. Play more golf. Pay less for everything in golf.
  4. I've never seen a YouT*** Pro criticize anything. This goes along with the pointless mag articles and forum topics about "what is wrong/is there anything wrong with golf?". There is nothing wrong with the sport of golf, but there are lots of courses and equipment manufacturers winging (wrongly) on about how bad the sales into golf are. Well, I don't care what the sales are in golf, I play golf for fun and sport, not to support a bloated, profit-seeking industry, that overpays players as well, and lies to try and sell me a new driver/irons/ball/glove/trolley every 6 months.
  5. My criticism in my post is of the magazine in question, as well as all magazines that follow the bad procedure I described: If a magazine is doing any review, it should purchase the subject goods anonymously and test. They should not be warning, requesting nor demanding anything of the supplier, as that's bullying, blackmail and fraud. However, it appears that almost all magazines, free or paid, are nothing more than golf industry mouthpieces. The more I think about this, the more I am inclined to contact all the relevant government departments that regulate trade, press and consumer affairs....
  6. Never a truer word spoken in jest. Almost all paid for golf magazines are sycophantic mouthpieces for the golf equipment industry. I've never , in 40 years, seen a criticism of any equipment. Unfortunately, some of the articles in the freebies are also nothing more than adverts. It's actually worse than that sometimes; one the smaller electric golf trolley manufacturers once told me, when I enquired as to why they weren't in a test comparison article, that this particular golf magazine wanted a fee to include their item, as well as a free trolley! No fee, no inclusion in the test. That's blackmail.
  7. What makes you thing that all amateur golfers are "average choppers"? What makes you thing that all GolfShake members are "average choppers"? Those are terrible, thoughtless assumptions. Yet another baseless assumption. Where's your evidence for that? You might be hitting it fat, but you have no idea of the effect for anyone else. There is plenty of empiric detail in this thread to show why a glove works.
  8. There's 2 in our clubhouse, one is golf news (large), the other I can't remember, smaller size. AND one specifically for the ladies. If I've read it I don't take it, but if I haven't I take it home.
  9. That explains that then.... :-)
  10. Ricey155: how have you avoided blisters and callouses? I'm very curious about that. Fred Couples: 63 professional wins, but only 1 major. For someone of his ability, only 1 major. We'll never know how much better we would have been with a glove. His regular comment about "... I saved a lot of money not wearing a glove, ha ha..." is pointless as the best Pro's get gloves for free, even from his generation. Owen: Your never know how much better a player can be with a glove if that player never played regularly with a glove and clean grips. "Probably not..." is conjecture. As a player gets better, and the handicap lowers, so the importance of extreme accuracy rises. I suspect, but cannot prove, that that is why almost all the best players we see on TV wear a glove. At that level it's all about minutia of accurate head angle at contact, when the bending moments, torque and centrifugal forces are at their greatest, hence good grip is essential. I accept that us average amateur club golfers are different, but don't we all want to play to the best of the ability we have left? Another point: many golfers play most of their golf in the better weather, when the temperature is higher and sweat is an issue, and that includes the sweat you can't see or feel on your hands.
  11. The system works fine within the bounds of what is possible and the fact that even with regular play and an up-to-date handicap we all perform differently every round. If anyone thinks that golfshake is calculating handicaps incorrectly they should do what I did a few years ago; I googled excel spreadsheets that calculate handicaps that were available online and downloaded a few. I then checked after every round on these and golfshake for about a year. They all agreed. There are quite a few, take a look, but remember to only use UK ones. As to people always winning, organizers always winning, bandits, etc.... well any system is open to abuse. You need to speak up, and make a fuss if someone's taking the piss or clearly cheating, and I include in that not cutting someone's handicap as much as it should be. That's why the Handicap Secretary should not be involved with the organizing, and why you should keep an eye on Handicap Secretaries who always seem to do well in competitions even though they consistently have a high handicap. However, I think that the system does tend to cut more when you are a high handicapper than a low handicapper for very good reasons. That's why some cheats don't actively cheat other than making sure that when the round does not matter, i.e. not a high profile event, they deliberately screw up shots so hand in a bad card, and only hand in a good card when they can get their ego massaged. If anyone reading this recognizes themselves from the above, be assured that people in your club will know what your up to and have zero respect for you. The abuse is worse when there is real money involved (which isn't actually allowed in amateur golf anyway). Fact of life: if real money is a prize, some people will always cheat.
  12. Actually, it might. Firstly, you might hit more greens and not need to chip so often. Secondly, you have no way of knowing if the grip has slip even slightly when you chip without a glove. Even a small slip at the grip end produces a significant opening of the head. It's possible that many reading this have failed to realise the importance of not holding the club too tightly, thus causing tension within the muscles. We are all told, and I agree, not to hold the club too tightly; well do that with a bare hand with contamination and the grip will slip, the club will twist and you will slice etc...! A oil/sweat/sebum free grip and glove can hold a club much better and looser than a bare hand. This is one of the key ingredients to a relaxed, free-release swing and follow-through. That's also partly why a shaft is tapered at the top (that's why you should never hold a club right at the top, always about 1 inch down, unless you are Tiger Woods....). Think back to that occasional great shot you and I made with a wood or long iron, with a new or clean grip and wearing a new/newish glove, tension free, relaxed. Ever wondered why? I know that the more I relax, the better my shot. However, without a tension free, solid connection grip, it rarely happens. Ever noticed how great a new glove feels on a new grip? It's not just the new grip, it's both. I accept that for economic reasons we can't change our glove every round, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't wear a glove. Internet shops have dramatically reduced the cost of gloves over the last 5 years. Not wearing a glove will significantly increase the probability of bad shots, and this increases as the round go on, round after round, as the contamination piles up until the grips are cleaned. Can you clean your grip effectively after every shot? I suggest not. Can you clean your hands effectively before every shot? I suggest not. In fact we have to be careful what we put on our hands and grips during a round, because there are Rules about this. The driver is generally one of the most used clubs on a round, the one that has the highest stresses, centrifugal force and angular velocity, one that eats up the distance right from the off on most holes; bare hands and contamination of the grip will never produce a Draw, only a Slice, and the hole is ruined straight off the tee! A good connection grip is essential with the driver. I can lead a horse to water, but I can't make it drink.
  13. Ahh! Mr Bob, sadly not. My H/C is 21. However, in the last 5½ years, I have had scores below 90 and they are all still in my Authenticated history (see below), with some S/F points over 39. I am also pretty certain that I didn't achieve my sub 90 score whilst wearing my pink polka dot bikini... Are you sure you are entering your gross scores correctly? Are you Authenticating them? Handicaps are not based on the lowest score ever achieved, but all of your scores with a bias to your most recent scores based on complex rules and mathematics. One could call it a "hybrid" system. In my case I almost always play "Stroke Play", but that shouldn't effect my H/C because I think the handicapping system ignores scores over 2 over Par. But for personal reasons I want to know not just how good I was on a round, but how bad I was too. 09-Sep-2015 Golf Club Kent White 72 71 88 40 24-Jul-2013 Golf Club Kent Yellow 69 68 86 38 28-Feb-2013 Golf Club Kent Yellow 69 68 92 31 04-Oct-2012 Golf Club Kent yellow 71 68 88 37 24-Sep-2012 Golf Club Kent yellow 71 68 93 32 22-Aug-2012 Golf Club Kent yellow 71 68 94 32 13-Aug-2012 Golf Club Kent yellow 71 68 87 39 01-Aug-2012 Golf Club Kent yellow 71 68 85 40 21-Jul-2012 Golf Club Kent yellow 71 68 101 27 30-May-2012 Golf Club Kent yellow 71 68 88 37 19-May-2012 Golf Club Kent yellow 71 68 84 42
  14. Interesting. GolfShake doesn't ignore my sub 90 Gross scores....
  15. That is a very valid point, i.e. two gloves in summer as well. In fact, since I made my points about wearing a glove last Friday, I have questioned an online golf expert who also advocates always wearing one and gives a long explanation as to why we should wear a glove. He has today replied that he also wonders why two gloves aren't worm all the time, and cannot see a reason why not, given the clear advantage benefit of keeping sebum off the grip, and all the rest of the good reasons.