Ricey155

Glove or no glove ??

37 posts in this topic

Easy question :-) are there any real benefits from wearing one if you're not overly sweaty ??  only ask as I played for the first time without one today and it seems to make zero difference !! 

any thoughts ?? 

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If it makes zero difference to your game then don't bother buying them. Quite a personal choice, so nobody can really tell you that one way is right.

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I've used one since I ward 17 :-) at 43 maybe I never needed one after all !!

Another money saving experiment

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I am a non glove wearer, and never had a problem with grips slipping

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I think I tried not using a glove for a while and found I had a few areas on my hand rubbing against the grip ultimately causing a blister. If this doesnt happen to you then no need for a glove. Ive actually heard that no glove in wet condition can be better. ( not for me though ) CAC

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I hate the wet full stop, had my UA cold gear on Saturday for the October downpours :-(

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A golf glove is tackier than skin.
A golf glove protects the hand from the harshness of the grip.
A golf glove stops oily / waxy sebum from your skin from contaminating the grip, which will make it slippery. Sebum lubricates and waterproofs your skin, but is an unwanted slippery lubricant on your club grip.
A golf glove holds the club grip better than skin for the lighter pressure you need to play a good shot. Without a glove and with increasing sebum, a player holds tighter and his results in many slices and topping of the ball due to the stress of the tighter hands of the grip.
A glove creates a better connection to the grip than skin can.
If you chose not to wear a glove, you will need to wash every grip between games.

Although one can point to a few famous names who didn't wear a glove, how many Pro's do now?

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I get blisters in the same spot with or without a glove !

No issues not wearing a glove and save time :-) pros are sponsored and hit 1000s of balls there paid to sell kit to us idiots who think a carbon crown with lower inertia will gain you 30yrds every year #YeahRight

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Definitely no glove!   It was a pain when I wore one taking it off to putt and it made no difference to my game but just gave me a white hand in the summer....

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Maybe I'm a bit of a southern softee from Ruislip, Middlesex, but with the current rather cold climate, I'm wearing a pair of golf gloves on course. So another thread could maybe be started asking does wearing a glove on BOTH hands affect your scoring significantly? In my case answer is NO, I've hit 2 of my lowest ever scores very recently! Plus it certainly makes playing in minus degree temperatures somewhat more bearable!

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2 hours ago, Jax said:

Definitely no glove!   It was a pain when I wore one taking it off to putt and it made no difference to my game but just gave me a white hand in the summer....

...that's why I never take the glove off during a round (except when nature calls).

ON on the first tee, OFF as I walk off the last green.

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5 minutes ago, Bob Smith said:

Maybe I'm a bit of a southern softee from Ruislip, Middlesex, but with the current rather cold climate, I'm wearing a pair of golf gloves on course. So another thread could maybe be started asking does wearing a glove on BOTH hands affect your scoring significantly? In my case answer is NO, I've hit 2 of my lowest ever scores very recently! Plus it certainly makes playing in minus degree temperatures somewhat more bearable!

That is a very valid point, i.e. two gloves in summer as well.

In fact, since I made my points about wearing a glove last Friday, I have questioned an online golf expert who also advocates always wearing one and gives a long explanation as to why we should wear a glove. He has today replied that he also wonders why two gloves aren't worm all the time, and cannot see a reason why not, given the clear advantage benefit of keeping sebum off the grip, and all the rest of the good reasons.

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TommyTwoGloves #BigBreak

There's no right or wrong in golf, what ever works a glove won't help me chip better :-) I'd buy a 1000 if it did

 

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3 hours ago, Ricey155 said:

TommyTwoGloves #BigBreak

There's no right or wrong in golf, what ever works a glove won't help me chip better :-) I'd buy a 1000 if it did

 

Actually, it might.

Firstly, you might hit more greens and not need to chip so often.

Secondly, you have no way of knowing if the grip has slip even slightly when you chip without a glove. Even a small slip at the grip end produces a significant opening of the head. 

It's possible that many reading this have failed to realise the importance of not holding the club too tightly, thus causing tension within the muscles.  We are all told, and I agree, not to hold the club too tightly; well do that with a bare hand with contamination and the grip will slip, the club will twist and you will slice etc...!   A oil/sweat/sebum free grip and glove can hold a club much better and looser than a bare hand.  This is one of the key ingredients to a relaxed, free-release swing and follow-through. That's also partly why a shaft is tapered at the top (that's why you should never hold a club right at the top, always about 1 inch down, unless you are Tiger Woods....).

Think back to that occasional great shot you and I made with a wood or long iron, with a new or clean grip and wearing a new/newish glove, tension free, relaxed. Ever wondered why?  I know that the more I relax, the better my shot. However, without a tension free, solid connection grip, it rarely happens. Ever noticed how great a new glove feels on a new grip? It's not just the new grip, it's both.  I accept that for economic reasons we can't change our glove every round, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't wear a glove.  Internet shops have dramatically reduced the cost of gloves over the last 5 years. 

Not wearing a glove will significantly increase the probability of bad shots, and this increases as the round go on, round after round, as the contamination piles up until the grips are cleaned. Can you clean your grip effectively after every shot?  I suggest not.  Can you clean your hands effectively before every shot? I suggest not. In fact we have to be careful what we put on our hands and grips during a round, because there are Rules about this. The driver is generally one of the most used clubs on a round, the one that has the highest stresses, centrifugal force and angular velocity, one that eats up the distance right from the off on most holes; bare hands and contamination of the grip will never produce a Draw, only a Slice, and the hole is ruined straight off the tee!  A good connection grip is essential with the driver.

I can lead a horse to water, but I can't make it drink.

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I'm hitting it straighter and further than when I wore a glove all summer :-) I've worn a glove since I was 17, maybe I'm just Fred Couples ! Draws and fades no trouble with or without

Good research tho, I'll add I've cleaned my grips twice this year !

I'm not buying the horse either !

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For what it's worth, I know loads of very good players who do not play with a glove. + handicaps and pros. All them just never started wearing one. Would they be better with one, probably not. 

I wear one, but only because I am hooked. I hate hitting shots without one. 

I think it maybe it is down to how much you sweat personally, probably more useful for some than others? 

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Ricey155: how have you avoided blisters and callouses?  I'm very curious about that.
Fred Couples: 63 professional wins, but only 1 major. For someone of his ability, only 1 major. We'll never know how much better we would have been with a glove. His regular comment about   "... I saved a lot of money not wearing a glove, ha ha..."   is pointless as the best Pro's get gloves for free, even from his generation.

Owen: Your never know how much better a player can be with a glove if that player never played regularly with a glove and clean grips. "Probably not..." is conjecture.

As a player gets better, and the handicap lowers, so the importance of extreme accuracy rises. I suspect, but cannot prove, that that is why almost all the best players we see on TV wear a glove.  At that level it's all about minutia of accurate head angle at contact, when the bending moments, torque and centrifugal forces are at their greatest, hence good grip is essential.
I accept that us average amateur club golfers are different, but don't we all want to play to the best of the ability we have left?

Another point: many golfers play most of their golf in the better weather, when the temperature is higher and sweat is an issue, and that includes the sweat you can't see or feel on your hands.   

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Summer I'd agree and probably use one, my little finger is in bits after 2 comps Monday, Tuesday

Plasters grip well :-)

 

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I didn't wear a glove, not as I didn't like them I just struggle to find ones that fit. I have longish thin hands so they are either to short or to baggy.

I am rethinking the glove though! I've always struggled with a strong grip and have noticed this last week or so that with a glove on it makes it easier to weaken the top hand. I assume as the the glove adds extra thickness to the grip in my hand.

The glove may stay or I may just get mor tape under my grips!!! Time will tell!!!!!

And all this about a glove holding players back is pretty much tosh if you ask me. I expect it may make the kind of marginal difference a pro swinging his driver at 125mph might notice, but the average chopper wont have anywhere near enough control of the clubface to have a glove be the difference.

If the clubs turning in your hand its more than likley because your hitting it fat.

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On 20/12/2016 at 13:52, uncle chop chp said:

And all this about a glove holding players back is pretty much tosh if you ask me. I expect it may make the kind of marginal difference a pro swinging his driver at 125mph might notice, but the average chopper wont have anywhere near enough control of the clubface to have a glove be the difference.

If the clubs turning in your hand its more than likley because your hitting it fat.

What makes you thing that all amateur golfers are "average choppers"?  What makes you thing that all GolfShake members are "average choppers"? 

Those are terrible, thoughtless assumptions. 

On 20/12/2016 at 13:52, uncle chop chp said:

If the clubs turning in your hand its more than likley because your hitting it fat.

Yet another baseless assumption. Where's your evidence for that? You might be hitting it fat, but you have no idea of the effect for anyone else. 

There is plenty of empiric detail in this thread to show why a glove works.

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Posted (edited)

Don't get so touchy, I would suggest 80% of golfers are pretty bang average. Your handicap and mine suggest exactly that.

That's not an insult or meant to be, It's just fact. A glove will make zero difference to you or me, the avergae golfers clubface position will be degrees different every swing, the lie angle wil change each swing. All of which have infinitly more affect than the glove.

If your offended by the word chopper then I suggest a sense of humour may help.

 

Edited by uncle chop chp

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2 hours ago, uncle chop chp said:

Don't get so touchy, I would suggest 80% of golfers are pretty bang average. Your handicap and mine suggest exactly that.

That's not an insult or meant to be, It's just fact. A glove will make zero difference to you or me, the avergae golfers clubface position will be degrees different every swing, the lie angle wil change each swing. All of which have infinitly more affect than the glove.

If your offended by the word chopper then I suggest a sense of humour may help.

 

I'm rarely touchy, and I do have a great sense of humour.  However, It's you that are touchy as it's clear from your response that you jump at anything that does not match your belief system, even when you are wrong, which you are on this subject. Let's analyse:

Define "bang average"?  Where do you get 80% from?

A glove make a big difference to me, and note that I do not make any claim a glove's effect for you. All of the variables you quote do have an effect, but only a small effect; but no way near as much as a shaft slipping/moving in an ungloved hand, which additionally changes the head angle. In fact, the movement is only ever to open he face as centrifugal force, drag and impact reaction all act in that sense.

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Furthermore:

You underestimate the accuracy of the human eye and regularity of the set-up.   
It is your failure to understand what has small effect and what has bigger effect that defines your lack of factual understanding of the "shaft grip/human" interface.
How do you effectively and legally clean your hands and shafts during a round without gloves, especially in summer? 

In order to attempt to hold a gloveless shaft firmly and correctly for the whole swing, the force your hands have to the exert is far more than is needed for a gloved stress-free, free release, smooth swing.  Tightening your fingers and hand muscles without gloves cause other muscles in the wrists and lower arms to tighten up, hence increasing overall muscle stress in the whole arm, and negatively affecting the whole swing.

All the evidence and facts are against you; if gloves are a con I'd be the first to expose it !  I tried playing without gloves, and I'm much worse. 

I can lead a horse to water, but I can't make it drink.

I'm not offended by the word "chopper", I am offended by your sweeping generalization that every golfer other than a Pro swinging at 125mph is an "average chopper".  What about a non-Pro with a swing speed of 125, 110, 100 mph?

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Posted (edited)

Jesus you really are a temperamental one.

Let me start by saying if you want to wear the glove wear it. If it feels better to you or provides a mental advantage then go ahead. I do agree this can make a difference to the better players, but I just ain't buying it makes any difference to an average golfer under normal conditions.

If your an average golfer (notice I dropped the bang) who takes reasonable care of his clubs and gives his grips a bit of a clean on a semi regular basis, then I don't see where the advantages are, apart from comfort and stopping you getting blisters/calyces.

There are clear exceptions to what I'm saying,  if somebody never cleans there grips then a glove I would suggest is essential just for H&S reason. If playing in wet conditions where grips will be wet, a wet weather glove is clearly going to be of great help, or in soaring heat with 90% humidity (none of which applies to us golfers in the UK) then go ahead. Or if your just a bloke that has sweaty palms, not sure I know to many people like that, then go for it.

As a matter if interest how much do you think the club slips/turns during your swing without a glove compared to with one? Could it be that you thinking about this grip thing to much is what leads you to choke the life out of it without a glove? Do you have a high swing speed that may put you outside the norm? For reference my 6 iron swing speed is circa 90mph and my Driver swing speed is 115-120mph so I have a fairly high swing speed and I feel wearing a glove doesn't have an impact for me. Do you take a particularly light grip that may put you outside the Norm?

In response to the points you have tried to make, I've tried to explain myself a little better below.

23 hours ago, Viper said:

I'm rarely touchy, and I do have a great sense of humour.  However, It's you that are touchy as it's clear from your response that you jump at anything that does not match your belief system, even when you are wrong, which you are on this subject. Let's analyse:

Sounds very touchy to me, so let's analyse.

 

23 hours ago, Viper said:

Define "bang average"?  Where do you get 80% from?

For me anyone above a handicap of 10 is pretty average at golf. That is fundamentally about 80% of the people that play golf, the statistics are clear to see in the link below.

http://www.masterscoreboard.co.uk/SiteStats.php

I'm not quiet sure I should mention where I think the less than average golfers handicap lies, I wouldn't want to upset you anymore.

 

23 hours ago, Viper said:

A glove make a big difference to me, and note that I do not make any claim a glove's effect for you. All of the variables you quote do have an effect, but only a small effect; but no way near as much as a shaft slipping/moving in an ungloved hand, which additionally changes the head angle. In fact, the movement is only ever to open he face as centrifugal force, drag and impact reaction all act in that sense.

I have a masters in Engineering so I do appreciate the effects of drag and centrifugal force.

Rotation caused by the Drag on a club face and shaft of absolute minimal surface area will be minute compared to a club 4 degrees toe up digging into the ground at or slightly before impact. No glove in the world will stop that.

The club face is the most important thing in golf, no matter what anyone tells you. The Clubface is 80% responsible for the direction of the golf ball, path is the other 20%. Now we have a GC2 with HMT at our club and I've seen a lot of very good players, average players (again minus the bang) and bad players hit balls on there and seen there stats. The path variation between swings for all of the range of abilities never appears to be very big. The better golfers are just a lot less in/out or out/in than the bad golfers.

The clubface of the better golfers rarely changes by more than a couple of degrees where as even an average golfer like myself can have very big difference between the face angle from shot to shot, couple this with bigger variations in path and the actual face to path differences can be huge between shots. Most of which is caused by a lack of forward shaft lean and the flipping of the club by lesser(not meat to be an insult) players at impact.

Also the fact very few golfers hit the ball out of the middle every time (Again not an insult to the average golfer just fact, proved by the mass selling of huge cavity backed irons and not blades) means gear affect, and the D lane have far more affect than your glove.

All the above have significantly more affect on the consistency of the average golfer. The effects a glove would have would make minimal contribution towards fixing this.

 

21 hours ago, Viper said:

You underestimate the accuracy of the human eye and regularity of the set-up.   

I believe your the one overestimating the capacity of the human eye. Eye dominance not only affects where your pointing but can also affect the way you swing the club. Everyone has an eye dominance and I expect most have no comprehension of what it is nevermind which eye is more dominant. Combine this with angular resolution, the blind spot (particularly pertinent when using one eye, as you would on a side on view), eye dominance, the unreliability of your peripheral vision again pertinent in a side on game. The amount of people who require glasses but don't wear them, people out growing there current prescriptions, the 8% of people who colour blind, visual fatigue, reduced fields of vision with age. And so on and so on.

The human eye passes light through that's all the brain processes the images, there are a huge amount of ways this can be distorted. Half of what you see you don't see the brain fills in the blanks, so no I'm not underestimating anything.

I'd expect there may be some constancy in peoples set up, I'd suggest again 80% of golfers therefore have a consistently bad setup. Again more of an affect I expect than a glove.

 

21 hours ago, Viper said:


It is your failure to understand what has small effect and what has bigger effect that defines your lack of factual understanding of the "shaft grip/human" interface.
How do you effectively and legally clean your hands and shafts during a round without gloves, especially in summer? 

 

I expect I'm already on my way to proving I've got a full appreciation of the small things, which what a lot iv discussed aren't small things. Of all the things discussed I'm still thinking the glove is the smallest.

I clean them between rounds!!! An average golf handicap in this country is 18 (Notice this the average handicap, not the benchmark for ability). With an average par of 71 sss of 69 and a 3-4 shot buffer that's likely 90-91 shot average round. At the most 15 with a driver the most critical club requiring a good grip, why would I need to clean it during the round? Where are you putting your hands between each shot? Do you casually walk the course applying bril cream or something? Or greasing your trolley wheels? I'd say the amount of time the hands spend on the club cleaning them every 3 rounds would suffice. For the irons hit maybe once a round then you could leave them all year.

 

21 hours ago, Viper said:

In order to attempt to hold a gloveless shaft firmly and correctly for the whole swing, the force your hands have to the exert is far more than is needed for a gloved stress-free, free release, smooth swing.  Tightening your fingers and hand muscles without gloves cause other muscles in the wrists and lower arms to tighten up, hence increasing overall muscle stress in the whole arm, and negatively affecting the whole swing.

I would expect the fact that you have a piece of rubber, the one material universally utilised to provide grip, should provide ample grip to not have to choke the life out of the club. I'd suggest the lack of mobility in a lot of golfers, fighting the hit reflex and the brain kicking in mid swing all prove more fundamental factors in swing tension than the glove. Perhaps if you lightened up a bit then you wouldn't be so tense when your golfing.

 

21 hours ago, Viper said:

All the evidence and facts are against you; if gloves are a con I'd be the first to expose it !  I tried playing without gloves, and I'm much worse. 

I'd suggest you have provided no evidence to me and not a single fact, some conjecture and regurgitation from things you may have read or heard along the way. I'm not stating my thoughts here as fact they are opinion, based on what I believe to be reasonable theories. You state what you say is fact which suggests to me that you seem to hold your opinion way to highly. 

21 hours ago, Viper said:

I can lead a horse to water, but I can't make it drink.

Lead me to any water body you desire, just don't expect me to drink the crap your serving, just because you say its fact.

 

Edited by uncle chop chp

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